The denial of the existence of racism (unless, of course, it's "reverse racism").
This is achieved by the New Racist via two main tactical methods:
A. Anyone who suggests that something or someone is racist is immediately accused of actually being racist themselves by the New Racist for even thinking/saying/posting such a thing.
B. The target/recipient of racial prejudice is accused of being a racist by the New Racist.
These tactics, while apparently effective, are, imo, dangerous because it precludes the possibility of any rational discussion regarding racial issues.
All discourse on the subject will automatically degrade into a "I know you are, but what am I" hissy-fit where no understanding can possibly be reached.
This is achieved by the New Racist via two main tactical methods:
A. Anyone who suggests that something or someone is racist is immediately accused of actually being racist themselves by the New Racist for even thinking/saying/posting such a thing.
B. The target/recipient of racial prejudice is accused of being a racist by the New Racist.
These tactics, while apparently effective, are, imo, dangerous because it precludes the possibility of any rational discussion regarding racial issues.
All discourse on the subject will automatically degrade into a "I know you are, but what am I" hissy-fit where no understanding can possibly be reached.
+4 Votes
Ornithopters 2 hours ago
+4 Votes
of course there is still some racism. Zimmerman ain't racist. That cop in Cambridge wasn't racist, yet both were accused, but the way funky frames it - if you even question the accusers, you are guilty of racism.
Does that make any sense? No.
GeminiTwins 36 seconds ago
CNN has a show on tonight about the Rodney King beating and subsequent riots.
snarking.slug 1 hour ago
+2 Votes
Hognutzz 2 minutes ago
Kind of like. "Do you still beat your wife?"
teri 2 days ago
So pfunky hits and runs.
No comments for an entire day.
Post a topic and disappear.
Why?
No comments for an entire day.
Post a topic and disappear.
Why?
JimboSC 11 hours ago
+7 Votes
If I call him a racist, am I a "New Racist"? According to your thesis, yes. Therefore, I reject it :)
Well, I guess you get the honor of defining what New Racist is since it's your word. But it does not change the fact that the "anyone" referenced is just a plain ol' racist.
JimboSC 8 hours ago
+7 Votes
I think what you are seeing and labelling "New Racist" is what the right has evolved to for dealing with being called racist for 4 years now. In other words, it is a reaction to the non-sensical cries of racism from the left. Not that there is a disbelief in such a thing as racism generally.
teri 2 hours ago
+1 Vote
Nobody IS denying that racsim exists.
A lot of somebodies ARE denying that racism fuels all actions, all criticisms, all views of ALL things.
Have some of our posters here ever seen a critcism of the Obama administration that they DID NOT label the product of irrational racist bigoted Obama haters? Why is that Pfunky?
LiveStrongest 5 minutes ago
+1 Vote
I black friend once told me he had never experienced racism. That was about 10 years ago so he would have been about 35. No one denies that racism was a big problem. No one denies it exists. But the extent of racism in America today is the issue. Let me say for certain, that there would be a lot more lawsuits in corporate America if racism was prevalent
JimboSC 8 hours ago
+6 Votes
Person 1: Hey, did you hear Obama's BC might be a forgery?
Person 2: What a racist thing to say!
Person 1: Huh? You must be a racist for even thinking about race!
Here we have Person 1 is both a racist (because "Anyone" or Person 2 get the automatic right to label him as such) AND he's a New Racist for daring to put that back on Person 2.
Now, the question to ask yourself is...which of these two people is guilty of stiffling the conversation?
eBud 15 minutes ago
+2 Votes
1. You're a witch, because your neighbors say you are.
2. I'm not a witch!
1. Yes, a witch would deny it!
1. To prove it we will attempt to drown you and if you survive then you are indeed a witch!!
Catch 22 has been around for quite a while...!
RicFlair 2 hours ago
+4 Votes
Ornithopters 2 hours ago
+2 Votes
P - I know you claim to be moderate - but this is the way lefties frame the issue so as to stifle debate.
LiveStrongest 3 minutes ago
+1 Vote
Yeah, pfunky is slipping over to the darkside these days.
That's a Star Wars reference. Not a race reference. It's a shame I even have to qualify that.
Hognutzz 6 minutes ago
"Fear is the path to the dark side, fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."---Master Yoda
Ornithopters 2 hours ago
+4 Votes
The training needs to be improved all groups of people need to be taught to respect all other groups. And the Sharptons and Jacksons, - if they were honest about wanting peace would help out.
As far as Pfunkys topic. I find it to be one of the most offensive ones I have seen in awhile. But no RA's from me. Let it stand for the world to see.
Cougardan 2 hours ago
+2 Votes
....your post here is very well stated.
teri 1 hour ago
+3 Votes
+2 Votes
My only comment here is this "New Racism" Is all about establishing division for political gain. The word Divide is the key to what is happening in this country.
My question is "what have we been told about Division" ?
DublTrubl 25 minutes ago
+2 Votes
Jerksy is busy fragging posts again. What a pathetic p o s.
snarking.slug 1 hour ago
+1 Vote
We make assumptions about people, too. What's hard is understanding what you KNOW about someone and what you've assumed about them. The unconscious racist is acting on assumptions that they don't know exist.
The president demonstrated this when he said, "if I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon Martin." Many assumed he meant his physical features would like the president's physical features. We don't know what he intended by the comment. There is too much unknown. What if the mother of this fictional child was Asian or White? Physically, would he look like the president?
The president demonstrated this when he said, "if I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon Martin." Many assumed he meant his physical features would like the president's physical features. We don't know what he intended by the comment. There is too much unknown. What if the mother of this fictional child was Asian or White? Physically, would he look like the president?
teri 1 hour ago
+2 Votes
There is a law governing the stopping of cars at a red light. We do know, however, that some times cars don't stop at the red light and anyone not alert can be run over, since human behavior is a part of the decision making process.
Different laws govern whether or not the lights go on when the switch is flipped. These are physical laws governing the properties of electricity and as such have less susceptibility to human decision making.
The president's remark was meant to bind himself with the victim's family. To show solidarity with them. Why he chose to do so in this incident and not to do so in so many other incidences remains the mystery. As the premier US politician he was aware that his words would have an impact. Why did he choose to bond with the family of a black victim and not the families of many other victims? Snark has said this choice had no meaning color wise.
snarking.slug 2 days ago
+2 Votes
I was writing about unconscious assumptions. All three are unconscious assumption. They belong together.
Interesting 3rd paragraph. Are you implying there are natural laws that should respected as defacto?
Finally, I reject your argument about the president bonding with anyone. He's been aloof. He's been separate. His upcoming campaign will feature him running away from the ENTIRE congress. he was baiting those who criticize his every word and his every breath, as president. They didn't disappoint, as we've seen on this board
Interesting 3rd paragraph. Are you implying there are natural laws that should respected as defacto?
Finally, I reject your argument about the president bonding with anyone. He's been aloof. He's been separate. His upcoming campaign will feature him running away from the ENTIRE congress. he was baiting those who criticize his every word and his every breath, as president. They didn't disappoint, as we've seen on this board
RicFlair 1 minute ago
Snark baby, the racist you gotta worry about the most is the one that claims they ain't a racist at all pal!
Nohelp1 2 days ago
+2 Votes
Would Thughunter be one such person?
snarking.slug 2 days ago
+2 Votes
This board is full of 'em, Ric
'
teri 2 days ago
+6 Votes
Snark
Ok.
Great.
What was his point then?
"..he baited those who criticise his every word..."
Why?
What was his purpose?
Why inflame sentiments over some quirk?
Ok.
Great.
What was his point then?
"..he baited those who criticise his every word..."
Why?
What was his purpose?
Why inflame sentiments over some quirk?
snarking.slug 1 hour ago
+1 Vote
It's all about the assumption.
teri 1 hour ago
+1 Vote
http://www.marketwatch.com/community/groups/american-politics/topics/new-racism-
snarking.slug 34 minutes ago
+1 Vote
No doubt,.
Why would he.
I never said he didn't intend to draw out the worst in the folks who so jealously oppose his every breath, as president. It's about assumptions.
Why would he.
I never said he didn't intend to draw out the worst in the folks who so jealously oppose his every breath, as president. It's about assumptions.
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stndyogrnd 2 days ago
+3 Votes
LOL the premise of a covert racist is that if you mention the reality of race, you are a racist..... they do this of course to hide their own covert racial hatred that they will never admit to. The Covert racist also denies that centuries of oppressive institutionalized racsim has nothing to do with the existence of anger and frustration towards whitesthat comes from growing up in centers of spiritual and economic poverty, that exist because those centruies of institutionalized racism. Such racist claim that to acknowledge that is to "justify" individual behavior on the part of blacks who succumb to that hate fueled bigotry towards whites... it is not a "justification" only the recognition of mitigation circumstances, that should be taken into account when dealing with a convicted person of those crimes. It is a justification fo spending both time, effort and money to relieve the presures of poverty and hopelessness in those areas
TheScott 2 days ago
+7 Votes
RD - This is the very set of attitudes and presumptions that are going to draw our country into an ever increasing racial situation..... At some point the 'oppressed' have to stop carrying that yoke and start taking responsibility for their own existence and stop using race for everything that is bad in this world because its not.
I grew up as a GI brat, living in integrated communities and went to integrated schools and played and associated with kids of lots of different races... I have personally been effected by affirmative action twice, once in the military and once on a government contract job... I didn't complain but I don't consider myself racists.... but I am dammm well tired of being told that I am ! As far as your centers of 'spiritual and economic poverty', I would contend that much of it that exists today is the unintended consequence of democrats convincing a segment of the population that they NEED the government to fix it
I grew up as a GI brat, living in integrated communities and went to integrated schools and played and associated with kids of lots of different races... I have personally been effected by affirmative action twice, once in the military and once on a government contract job... I didn't complain but I don't consider myself racists.... but I am dammm well tired of being told that I am ! As far as your centers of 'spiritual and economic poverty', I would contend that much of it that exists today is the unintended consequence of democrats convincing a segment of the population that they NEED the government to fix it
TheScott 2 days ago
+4 Votes
Are their people on this board with strong racial attitudes.... you bet. Its not easy to miss, but until people in this PC afflicted world realise that minority actions have repercussions as well, we will never be able to move forward on this issue. I've known 3 individuals, 2 who came out of the projects in Chicago and 1 out of west LA. All three are doing well in this world and owe their success to a strong family member who guided them to do good, stay out of trouble and study hard....... If one family can see the benefits of those words then it isn't I that holds someone back and it isn't I that creates the spiritual deficiency. Are their racists in this country.... you bet but they come in a sizes, shapes, sexes and colors.....
stndyogrnd 2 days ago
+2 Votes
LOL ... I don't recall anyone here calling you out as a "Racist" TheScott.... you have cerntainly proved your a political bigot, with the typical rigid right wing centered ideological script that limits you every perception and conclusion,but I never really noticed racism to be on of your characteristics..... do you have a guilty conscious??? Is that why your here complaining about being called a racist? Sound like a personal issue to me. My talking about the reality of covert racism is not going to draw my country (you don't live here anymore correct?) into any great racial divide that does not already exist. That's just you giving cover for covert racist.... why would you want to do that? There is vast difference between the feelings of racial bigotry born of having been on the receiving end of institutionalized racist oppression towards the race that benefited from that oppression , and the sort of convert racist that preaches their "Oh just get over it message".
stndyogrnd 2 days ago
+2 Votes
There certainly is a lot to be said for promoting forgiveness of past transgressions of institutionalized racism, but that requires an honest assessment of the damage done by that past institutionalized racism to the subjected oppressed race from the context of social, economic and cultural destruction that still lays in the wake of that institutionalized racism. That requires an ability to step out of the narrow confines of one narcissistic perceptions and take a broader view how some racial cultures vastly benefited and some were crushed under the weight of that institutionalized oppression. For some reason those with right wing character traits always seem to lake that ability, to walk in someone else's shoes. Such folks love to make sanctimonious pronouncements about how they would deal with racism if they were in the same position, yet they constantly whine about the in comparison , relative, minor inconvenience of affirmative action
TheScott 1 day ago
+1 Vote
RD - Before we deal with the propaganda that flows so easily from your mind I will clear up a couple of points...Firstly, just because I currently do not live in the US at present makes it no less MY country and no more YOUR country... as a matter of fact it I get insight that your close-mindedness could never bring to the forum.... Rest assured, I am still beholden to the IRS and I have the same right to vote as you do and will continue to express my opinions as to the problems and future direction of my country, so you can take your pathetic attempt to denigrate my citizenship and stick it where the sun don't shine. Second, an more relevant to this discussion, unless you are a minority, just how supercilious can you be to presume to lecture me on how 'being born on the receiving end of racism' feels, or has felt or will fell in the future... Sometimes, I just shake my head at the arrogance
TheScott 1 day ago
+1 Vote
Anyway, as to the point I as making about people like you actually doing more harm than good to the harmony of the races in this country. I've always felt the democratic party to be a nebulous bunch... little groups of 'I wanna be's', 'I wanna haves', 'YOU should do this's' and 'YOU should do that's'. Knowing full well that their little wants are neither important to or in the interest of the betterment of the nation, they band together in an unholy alliance of 'if you vote for mine, I'll vote of yours'. This coalition is of course held together and organised by the 'progressive movement'. The progressive movement loves the chaos it brings to the country and is rather adept, not unlike a chameleon, at changing its colors and is always attempting to rewrite history in its favor. As I've said before, the progressive movement creates situations by pushing solutions that are poorly thought out and ill conceived
TheScott 1 day ago
+1 Vote
When those situations go bad, they blame someone else and tell everyone that they are the light and the solution. The progressive movement in this instance has actually managed to dupe a large segment of the black population into believing that it has their best interest at heart. Make no mistake, they have been duped. See I have been waiting for some progressive spewing, left leaning democratic albino jackrabbit to jump out of its hole with their all knowing rhetoric, because some black people, who have actually lived the history have some accusations to level at your benevolent selves... and I am interested in reading your responses....
(And some of you guys on the far right might need to suck it up a bit... this could be an eye opener for some of you as well...)
http://www.nbra.info/FrequentlyAskedQuestions#The_Democratic_Party_Owes_Blacks_An_Apology
And when you are finished him-hawing over these.... we have more.
(And some of you guys on the far right might need to suck it up a bit... this could be an eye opener for some of you as well...)
http://www.nbra.info/FrequentlyAskedQuestions#The_Democratic_Party_Owes_Blacks_An_Apology
And when you are finished him-hawing over these.... we have more.
stndyogrnd 1 day ago
"RD - Before we deal with the propaganda that flows so easily from your mind I will clear up a couple of points...."
LOL
to lead off with that presumptive nonsense then claim you are interested in a "response" is an diametrically opposed expression
Your every post ends up the same place the justification of your postion is because you are arguing against a "liberal" or "progressive" position and that is enough in isself to make you right.... to quote George Bush "I know what I believe, and believe what I believe is right"..... this sort of circular self affirmation is rampant among the right wing personality type that uses the label or "progressive" as proof of their arguments veracity.
The claim you have some special insight because you live abroad, is equally lame, since you do not have within your self the basic ability to recognize and step away from you own bigoted preconceived conclusions, that dramatically color your perceptions
LOL
to lead off with that presumptive nonsense then claim you are interested in a "response" is an diametrically opposed expression
Your every post ends up the same place the justification of your postion is because you are arguing against a "liberal" or "progressive" position and that is enough in isself to make you right.... to quote George Bush "I know what I believe, and believe what I believe is right"..... this sort of circular self affirmation is rampant among the right wing personality type that uses the label or "progressive" as proof of their arguments veracity.
The claim you have some special insight because you live abroad, is equally lame, since you do not have within your self the basic ability to recognize and step away from you own bigoted preconceived conclusions, that dramatically color your perceptions
stndyogrnd 1 day ago
I particularly lie this diatribe of self admitted bigotry, of once again showing the typical personality trait of the right winger, that employs the "I know what I believe and I believe what I believe is right"
" I've always felt the democratic party to be a nebulous bunch... little groups of 'I wanna be's', 'I wanna haves', 'YOU should do this's' and 'YOU should do that's'. Knowing full well that their little wants are neither important to or in the interest of the betterment of the nation".... He is a big hint.... what you "feel" doesn't mean squat in term of "reality"....
Accuracy of perception is not about "feeling" its about objectivity, and a commitment to accuracy of seeing all sided of a discussion to find the truth that is always a blend of opposing positions
" I've always felt the democratic party to be a nebulous bunch... little groups of 'I wanna be's', 'I wanna haves', 'YOU should do this's' and 'YOU should do that's'. Knowing full well that their little wants are neither important to or in the interest of the betterment of the nation".... He is a big hint.... what you "feel" doesn't mean squat in term of "reality"....
Accuracy of perception is not about "feeling" its about objectivity, and a commitment to accuracy of seeing all sided of a discussion to find the truth that is always a blend of opposing positions
TheScott 1 day ago
+1 Vote
Not at all.... all of your posts are presented in the attack mode and the message of each is very clear......."I know what I believe and I believe what I believe is right". All of your points and prescripts are true, good and virtuous while most others to the right of you (and that takes in a rather large portion of the population) has nothing of value to discuss...... and you call me narrow minded
stndyogrnd 1 day ago
+1 Vote
LOL no my posts attack right wing assumptions.....many of which are projected on their mythical "left" as their rationality for the narrow shallow right wing ideology.
Just like the right wing assumption that "progressive don't address personal responsibility" that is then used to blast the existence every social program. This is usually followed by the claim that since the program is not perfect should not exist at all, nor should representative Government, even attempt to help those unfortunate
Just like the right wing assumption that "progressive don't address personal responsibility" that is then used to blast the existence every social program. This is usually followed by the claim that since the program is not perfect should not exist at all, nor should representative Government, even attempt to help those unfortunate
teri 2 days ago
+7 Votes
"I never said he didn't intend to draw out the worst in the folks who so jealously oppose his every breath...."
So, snark you are then saying he DID intend to draw out the worst in folks who so jealously oppose his every breath"
Why?
Why would he want to do that?
I await your answer with baited breath.
So, snark you are then saying he DID intend to draw out the worst in folks who so jealously oppose his every breath"
Why?
Why would he want to do that?
I await your answer with baited breath.
DublTrubl 37 seconds ago
To single out something purely based upon racial characteristics is the epitome of racism. That is what Obama did. In addition to acting as a racist, he committed the racist act for personal political gain. Those two conditions make him a despicable racist.
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stndyogrnd 2 hours ago
LOL the premise of a covert racist is that if you mention the reality of race, you are a racist..... they do this of course to hide their own covert racial hatred that they will never admit to. The Covert racist also denies that centuries of oppressive institutionalized racsim has nothing to do with the existence of anger and frustration towards whitesthat comes from growing up in centers of spiritual and economic poverty, that exist because those centruies of institutionalized racism. Such racist claim that to acknowledge that is to "justify" individual behavior on the part of blacks who succumb to that hate fueled bigotry towards whites... it is not a "justification" only the recognition of mitigation circumstances, that should be taken into account when dealing with a convicted person of those crimes. It is a justification fo spending both time, effort and money to relieve the presures of poverty and hopelessness in those areas
AnalogAnomaly 6 minutes ago
The New Racism is:
thinking race matters.
it doesn't, your not special, get over it.
thinking race matters.
it doesn't, your not special, get over it.
Hognutzz 1 minute ago
+1 Vote
LiveStrongest 1 minute ago
I black friend once told me he had never experienced racism. That was about 10 years ago so he would have been about 35. No one denies that racism was a big problem. No one denies it exists. But the extent of racism in America today is the issue. Let me say for certain, that there would be a lot more lawsuits in corporate America if racism was prevalent
teri 2 days ago
+6 Votes
So as we scroll to the end of whatever truncated post parade we have left, I notice there is no reply, no defense, no explanation from the topic originator.
Pfunky hits and runs.
Create the topic and disappear.
Why?
Pfunky hits and runs.
Create the topic and disappear.
Why?
TheScott 2 days ago
+4 Votes
She is part of a small but effective bipartisan group called the muckrakers.....
pfunky2222 2 days ago
+4 Votes
Apologies, folks, for a delay in my posting - teri, if you must know, I have some personal stuff to tend to that trumps your apparent need for closure from me.
At this point in the thread there's so much to respond to ...
@Orni - I don't think you're a racist and the points you made, particularly about the media, are really good, - exactly the kind of points that get stifled by the tactics I described in the topic body. Same with you, Jimbo (of course you had to parse everything)
I'm just talking about a very specific pattern I've seen a 100 times on this board, that's all. I thought I made that pretty clear. I'm sorry if I didn't.
@TheScott - I'm not raking muck. I was going for some good discussion. Based on what I've read here, it seems that I was pretty successful.
Good posts everyone.
At this point in the thread there's so much to respond to ...
@Orni - I don't think you're a racist and the points you made, particularly about the media, are really good, - exactly the kind of points that get stifled by the tactics I described in the topic body. Same with you, Jimbo (of course you had to parse everything)
I'm just talking about a very specific pattern I've seen a 100 times on this board, that's all. I thought I made that pretty clear. I'm sorry if I didn't.
@TheScott - I'm not raking muck. I was going for some good discussion. Based on what I've read here, it seems that I was pretty successful.
Good posts everyone.
teri 1 day ago
No need for closure from you. I always wonder when the creator of a topic throws up controversial topic and then disappears. Wouldn't you?
Nohelp1 1 day ago
+1 Vote
At least some can create topics. Since I never could access my old account Nohelp, I started this new account Nohelp1 but I have been unable to create any topics.
stndyogrnd 1 day ago
+1 Vote
Just for fun, try creating a new Nohelp2 account and see if you can not create a topic.....I think your account is somehow corrupted, leaving you with out this capability.
teri 1 day ago
That sound slike good advice. Surely it is merely a glitch
educatedguess 1 day ago
+10 Votes
I think what ol' phunky is trying to say is that someone who immediately labels one as a racist when accused of such is basically an ad hominem attack on that person, whereby the accused immediately attacks the "person" because the accused cannot formulate an adequate or intelligent response to the accusation. This is used all the time in politics and circles where everyone is trying to "act" more intelligent than they really are. Someone posted that Jesse Jackson fits this mold perfectly...I wholeheartedly agree, along with the despicable Al Sharpton. To see this type of erroneous and infantile attack/response in action EVERYDAY, tune into MSNBC for an hour or two if one can stomach the stench being disseminated from their HDTV
/>The best line in this entire thread and the winner of chicken dinner goes to AnalogAnomaly.
"The New Racism is...thinking race maters
It's arrogant to think you know someone's best interests. Have you ever had someone come to you and say, "I want you to tell me what is in my interest." No? Never happens, does it.
LOL yea its really arrogant to think another human being wants to feel secure in the knowledge that they will have the ability to get and maintain the, basics of modern life like food, shelter, personal safety, and health care....... hardly anyone wants that....... its an even bigger stretch to imagine that when people get old, (like everyone does) and can no longer produce that they will have access to those things...... no one wants a secure job, a stable economy, a society that minimizes crime and violence. No one wants clean air and clean water, or a Government that represents their concerns.... yea only an arrogant person would think that.
"no one wants a secure job, a stable economy, a society that minimizes crime and violence. No one wants clean air and clean water, or a Government that represents their concerns"
So what the Left is offering is secure employment, stable economy, a society with enforced limits on criminal violence, clean air, clean water, and a Government that represents the concerns of citizens (minus a little individual liberty)? Sounds a lot like that Utopian society embraced by Paul Newman in Cool Hand Luke...
Pat baby, anybody that claims they know and have my interests in mind has always got a price tag they're trying to hide pal!
"LOL for the same reason poor people vote against their own self interest and vote "republican". They too stupid to understand the nature of corruption that is destroying this country,and who its biggest promoters and protectors are."
"Right wingers can't even admit to their own political bigotry,"
Funny that both quotes above were taken from the same individual's post. Political bigotry indeed;)
LOL
Kenny baby, when your objective perception gives you a life of living large, calling the shots, stylin and profiling, that's what makes sense pal!
I thought that the points that they made were unambiguous and to the point. Subjects and facts..... history and facts....
I would say that when presented with a contrary point of view, as laid out by facts, and someone cannot or will not comment on the facts...... they either have something that they cannot defend and would be embarrassed or harmed by engaging in a conversation over or something that they wish to remain secret because disclosure of that secret would uncover something they could not defend or would be embarrassed or harmed by...
And if it is indeed the programs and ideas of the left or progressives that are indeed putting minorities and poor in a position that is creating more harm than good because of something overlooked in the consciousness of those who suppose that they are doing good.... wouldn't you want to know? Wouldn't you want to investigate your own thought process rather than insisting that you are correct? I know that I would...
Kenny baby, being a winner is a fantasy only to the whipped left. To the big men on the right, winning is a way of life pal!
"Yes we all know that right wingers call any striving for and ideal that falls short of immediate perfection a "Utopia". as their shallow justification for the survival of the fittest form of society and culture they embrace."
A.) I'm not a right-winger. I'm a liberal; classical liberal at that. Learn the difference.
B.) The Free Market itself is no utopia of economic perfection, but government intervention tends to exacerbate problems that would ordinarily consume themselves. How often have we been warned of 'moral hazard' in the finance industry, only to have Uncle Sam step in with bags of taxpayer dollars to save those who should have been culled from the marketplace? "...falls short of immediate perfection..."? Ha! You so funny;)
C.) "For some reason the right wing personality can only comprehend a world based on abject selfishness."
-Name a system of Government that rewards virtue over self-interest before daring to lecture on this subject. Shallow indeed...
It seems as if the ignorant in our society will always get the most attention in these matters. We have always found ways to make distinctions in our subgroups: black, white, brown, yellow, red, Irish, Polish, Mexican, Russian. With the exception of Native Americans who were already here and the African slaves who were forced to come here, everybody came here for the opportunity to succeed. We should welcome and celebrate the success of any American. We should recognize American talent. Unfortunately, we continue to hyphenate the American identity and separate ourselves into our hyphen camps. This weakens us as a nation.
"The New Racism is...thinking race maters
RicFlair 1 day ago
+5 Votes
Pfunky baby, some good back and forth going on here but it's amazing that this topic hasn't been fragged yet. Only you could pull this off gal!
teri 1 day ago
+7 Votes
Ric
"Only you could pull this off gal!"
How is pfunky keeping this topic from being fragged?
"Only you could pull this off gal!"
How is pfunky keeping this topic from being fragged?
RicFlair 1 day ago
+7 Votes
teri, I don't give away my secrets of any of my compatriots secrets either baby!
JimboSC 1 day ago
+5 Votes
"I'm just talking about a very specific pattern I've seen a 100 times on this board, that's all. I thought I made that pretty clear. I'm sorry if I didn't." - Pfunky
My response addressed that. It is a reaction of the "guilty" party (from your perspective) to the onslaught they''ve dealt with for a long time now.
Here's a better analogy I think:
You're the kindergarten teacher and me and RD are pupils in the back row. You are writing on the board with your back to us and RD is punching me in the arm for 4 hours. You are aware of the commotion but for some reason have decided to ignore it. When I finally turn and punch him, you turn around and send me to the corner.
...
My response addressed that. It is a reaction of the "guilty" party (from your perspective) to the onslaught they''ve dealt with for a long time now.
Here's a better analogy I think:
You're the kindergarten teacher and me and RD are pupils in the back row. You are writing on the board with your back to us and RD is punching me in the arm for 4 hours. You are aware of the commotion but for some reason have decided to ignore it. When I finally turn and punch him, you turn around and send me to the corner.
...
stndyogrnd 1 day ago
+1 Vote
"The New Racism is...thinking race maters
No actually the New Racism is trying to pretend that 300 yrs of institutionalized Racism doesn't matter. The reality is that with the up coming generations Race is mattering less and less....but there are still plenty of folks around the have very distinct memories abuse due to institutionalized racism, as well as centers of poverty and hopelessness that can be tracked back to those centuries of racism. and there are still many covert racist among us that, want to continually deny that is the case, and that think that if we ignore it, it will all just go away. Eventually in the future it will go away, when a the racist and those that experienced that racism die...... but that is in the future..... reality is now
No actually the New Racism is trying to pretend that 300 yrs of institutionalized Racism doesn't matter. The reality is that with the up coming generations Race is mattering less and less....but there are still plenty of folks around the have very distinct memories abuse due to institutionalized racism, as well as centers of poverty and hopelessness that can be tracked back to those centuries of racism. and there are still many covert racist among us that, want to continually deny that is the case, and that think that if we ignore it, it will all just go away. Eventually in the future it will go away, when a the racist and those that experienced that racism die...... but that is in the future..... reality is now
pattersh 23 hours ago
+3 Votes
"Institutional Racism" is a valid topic of discussion vis a vis New Racism, but citing covert racism as a negative influence in race relations distracts us from the real discussion. By raising a bogeyman to bolster your position, the burden of proof is not on those who doubt the influence of "covert racism", but rather lies squarely on your shoulders to prove not only its existence, but its influence and relevance to the conversation.
Good luck with that! I myself would rather attempt proving the existence and influence of the tooth fairy;)
Good luck with that! I myself would rather attempt proving the existence and influence of the tooth fairy;)
Cougardan 23 hours ago
+2 Votes
Lol....Pattersh...ya just made the racist rants of RD.completely obsolete....you have shared the truth in seconds that he has spent years trying to convince us otherwise....the racist truth has reared its ugly head!
teri 1 day ago
+4 Votes
That sounds like good advice. Surely it is merely a glitch.
pattersh 23 hours ago
+4 Votes
"Institutional Racism" is a valid topic of discussion vis a vis New Racism, but citing covert racism as a negative influence in race relations distracts us from the real discussion. By raising a bogeyman to bolster your position, the burden of proof is not on those who doubt the influence of "covert racism", but rather lies squarely on your shoulders to prove not only its existence, but its influence and relevance to the conversation.
Good luck with that! I myself would rather attempt proving the existence and influence of the tooth fairy;)
Good luck with that! I myself would rather attempt proving the existence and influence of the tooth fairy;)
stndyogrnd 23 hours ago
+1 Vote
LOL There is no need at all to prove the existence of covert racism, simply because some chooses to deny it. This is the same sort of BS of how the right wing birthers continually come up with one lame excuse after another, to continually demand further proof of Obama's birth certificate.
To deny and demand "proof" that there exist people who are racists and won't admit to it, is pretty much an ignorant position, and quite delusional.
To deny and demand "proof" that there exist people who are racists and won't admit to it, is pretty much an ignorant position, and quite delusional.
pattersh 23 hours ago
+4 Votes
"There is no need at all to prove the existence of covert racism, simply because some chooses to deny it."
-Of course there's a need to prove the existence, because you're using its existence to bolster your position. That's why I suggested abandoning the "thought crime" bogeyman, because its inclusion does nothing to bolster your argument. What hard numbers does the notion of "covert racism" lend? ZERO! And even if you convict an individual of said 'thought crime', they are no longer a "covert" racist! Rather, they are a common racist; which undermines your original position. Let it go, my friend, and stick to the relevant aspects of the debate;)
You brought up a valid point with Institutional Racism, so expound upon it
-Of course there's a need to prove the existence, because you're using its existence to bolster your position. That's why I suggested abandoning the "thought crime" bogeyman, because its inclusion does nothing to bolster your argument. What hard numbers does the notion of "covert racism" lend? ZERO! And even if you convict an individual of said 'thought crime', they are no longer a "covert" racist! Rather, they are a common racist; which undermines your original position. Let it go, my friend, and stick to the relevant aspects of the debate;)
You brought up a valid point with Institutional Racism, so expound upon it
TheScott 23 hours ago
+5 Votes
These folks, that you ignored in a previous post, tend to point the finger of institutional racism and suppression at your own party. Perhaps you are right about the fact that it exists but are being mislead about its source. Instead of telling everyone else that they are wrong, why don't you tell us why the black people who posted this page are wrong ....
http://www.nbra.info/FrequentlyAskedQuestions#The_Democratic_Party_Owes
http://www.nbra.info/FrequentlyAskedQuestions#The_Democratic_Party_Owes
ROJODEE 22 hours ago
+3 Votes
Gosh ....Covertism.....the new ideology....do I need to do a Wiki entry on this where we have a reference??"
stndyogrnd 22 hours ago
+1 Vote
LOL for the same reason poor people vote against their own self interest and vote "republican". They too stupid to understand the nature of corruption that is destroying this country,and who its biggest promoters and protectors are. That pathetic right wing laundry list of talking points is self explanatory as what sort of person that is cognitively challenged would post that kind of dribble. There are ignorant people in every race.
There is no "position" to bolster that relies on the existence of "covert racist" or people who are racist but don't want to admit it...... that is just a fact of reality of the sort of racism that exists, as well as overt racism. No one bought up the idea of "convicting' anyone of any sort of "thought crime" except you. Right wingers can't even admit to their own political bigotry, so its not surprising they would deny the existence of hidden covert racial bigotry that exists in this country
There is no "position" to bolster that relies on the existence of "covert racist" or people who are racist but don't want to admit it...... that is just a fact of reality of the sort of racism that exists, as well as overt racism. No one bought up the idea of "convicting' anyone of any sort of "thought crime" except you. Right wingers can't even admit to their own political bigotry, so its not surprising they would deny the existence of hidden covert racial bigotry that exists in this country
MrSandman 22 hours ago
+4 Votes
stndyogrnd 22 hours ago
+1 Vote
pattersh 20 hours ago
+4 Votes
So what the Left is offering is secure employment, stable economy, a society with enforced limits on criminal violence, clean air, clean water, and a Government that represents the concerns of citizens (minus a little individual liberty)? Sounds a lot like that Utopian society embraced by Paul Newman in Cool Hand Luke...
stndyogrnd 19 hours ago
Yes we all know that right wingers call any striving for and ideal that falls short of immediate perfection a "Utopia". as their shallow justification for the survival of the fittest form of society and culture they embrace.
Of course the same shallow right wing mind, is not capable of grasping the fact that the creation of the USA, has been a work in progress. For some reason the right wing personality can only comprehend a world based on abject selfishness, and any other attempt by humans to cooperate and created a culture compassion, is considered an evil grasp for "utopia". This must be because they them selves are incapable of experiencing their common human bond.
Of course the same shallow right wing mind, is not capable of grasping the fact that the creation of the USA, has been a work in progress. For some reason the right wing personality can only comprehend a world based on abject selfishness, and any other attempt by humans to cooperate and created a culture compassion, is considered an evil grasp for "utopia". This must be because they them selves are incapable of experiencing their common human bond.
RicFlair 18 hours ago
+4 Votes
pattersh 21 hours ago
+7 Votes
"Right wingers can't even admit to their own political bigotry,"
Funny that both quotes above were taken from the same individual's post. Political bigotry indeed;)
stndyogrnd 19 hours ago
Not if your capable of objective perception of realty... then it makes perfect sense.
RicFlair 18 hours ago
+3 Votes
stndyogrnd 6 minutes ago
LOL since you know nothing about my life Nature boy, and yours is a fantasy... that pretty much leaves you with nothing of value to say.
TheScott 19 hours ago
+4 Votes
I would say that when presented with a contrary point of view, as laid out by facts, and someone cannot or will not comment on the facts...... they either have something that they cannot defend and would be embarrassed or harmed by engaging in a conversation over or something that they wish to remain secret because disclosure of that secret would uncover something they could not defend or would be embarrassed or harmed by...
And if it is indeed the programs and ideas of the left or progressives that are indeed putting minorities and poor in a position that is creating more harm than good because of something overlooked in the consciousness of those who suppose that they are doing good.... wouldn't you want to know? Wouldn't you want to investigate your own thought process rather than insisting that you are correct? I know that I would...
RicFlair 18 hours ago
+5 Votes
Kenny baby, the big men on the right set the standard for ideals, the good life, living large, and paying the price to make it happen.
The whipped men on the left can't accept the simple fact that the big men on the right make things happen, so they gotta hide behind the race card pal!
The whipped men on the left can't accept the simple fact that the big men on the right make things happen, so they gotta hide behind the race card pal!
stndyogrnd 18 hours ago
LOL small shallow arrested adolescent males of the right set the standard for bigotry, ignorance, delusion and denial..... their arrogant fantasy of always being "winners" sets the standard for being pathetic.
pattersh 15 minutes ago
Worse than that, Ric, the men on the Left look at their achievements with guilt; as if their success were the result of nefarious influences. They seem to believe that, all things being equal, no one individual has the capacity to succeed on his or her own. This justifies a self-righteous support of collectivism, even at the expense of liberty.
Liberty. My forefathers died by the bushel to gain it, only to have it bargained away by those on the Left. Thanks for calling them out baby!
Liberty. My forefathers died by the bushel to gain it, only to have it bargained away by those on the Left. Thanks for calling them out baby!
stndyogrnd 13 seconds ago
Worse than that, Ric, the men on the Left look at their achievements with guilt; as if their success were the result of nefarious influences. They seem to believe that, all things being equal, no one individual has the capacity to succeed on his or her own. This justifies a self-righteous support of collectivism, even at the expense of liberty.
LOL what pathetic libertarian dribble.....
What any rational sane person grasps is the realty that their success is built on the fact that millions before them helped to create the knowledge base, the enabled them to make some small improvement, or adjustment that bought them wealth. The realize the ancient truth that no person is an island, and no one has ever "succeeded on their own" .. that is the fantasy or and arrogant fool
LOL what pathetic libertarian dribble.....
What any rational sane person grasps is the realty that their success is built on the fact that millions before them helped to create the knowledge base, the enabled them to make some small improvement, or adjustment that bought them wealth. The realize the ancient truth that no person is an island, and no one has ever "succeeded on their own" .. that is the fantasy or and arrogant fool
pattersh 7 minutes ago
@stndyogrnd,
So the man who invented the wheelbarrow should cower at having utilized the invention of the wheel? Haven't both improved society? Yet you would have one inventor, by accident of birth, relinquish his claim of personal ingenuity for having utilized and improved upon the invention of another? So who claims responsibility for the ingenuity of an individual? The state?
Ah yes, let the State lift from your shoulders all burdens; be they the guilt inherent in gifts of creativity or industry. Rest easy, my dear stndyogrnd, without the burdens of responsibility;)
So the man who invented the wheelbarrow should cower at having utilized the invention of the wheel? Haven't both improved society? Yet you would have one inventor, by accident of birth, relinquish his claim of personal ingenuity for having utilized and improved upon the invention of another? So who claims responsibility for the ingenuity of an individual? The state?
Ah yes, let the State lift from your shoulders all burdens; be they the guilt inherent in gifts of creativity or industry. Rest easy, my dear stndyogrnd, without the burdens of responsibility;)
Cougardan 6 minutes ago
The problem with grounded there Pattersh, is that he has invented nothing...fought no wars....and has led no nations....he is a consumer merely jealous of the very wealth that has ultimately provided him a better survival in this world than many a woefuly poor nation out there ever could dream of providing....he is a lip mover...not a money shaker
+4 Votes
pattersh 11 hours ago
+2 Votes
A.) I'm not a right-winger. I'm a liberal; classical liberal at that. Learn the difference.
B.) The Free Market itself is no utopia of economic perfection, but government intervention tends to exacerbate problems that would ordinarily consume themselves. How often have we been warned of 'moral hazard' in the finance industry, only to have Uncle Sam step in with bags of taxpayer dollars to save those who should have been culled from the marketplace? "...falls short of immediate perfection..."? Ha! You so funny;)
C.) "For some reason the right wing personality can only comprehend a world based on abject selfishness."
-Name a system of Government that rewards virtue over self-interest before daring to lecture on this subject. Shallow indeed...
stndyogrnd 38 minutes ago
LOL at best your a Libertarian which are the id iot cousins of right wingers.
Government intervention does not "tend" to exacerbate problems, because like anything tried by humans to fix social problems, nothing every works even close to how it should on the first time around. Couple that with a corrupt idealogical segment of the Representative Goverment" that wants any social program to fail, and makes sure it does, and that it serves some wealthy donars while it is in play... then you have a recipe for failure. The problem is not becaue of "Government intervention" it becaue of the corruption and mismanagment of our Representative Government' . Stll havin't grasped that "to big to fail" concept that our corrupt system allowed to happen have ya...... less
Government intervention does not "tend" to exacerbate problems, because like anything tried by humans to fix social problems, nothing every works even close to how it should on the first time around. Couple that with a corrupt idealogical segment of the Representative Goverment" that wants any social program to fail, and makes sure it does, and that it serves some wealthy donars while it is in play... then you have a recipe for failure. The problem is not becaue of "Government intervention" it becaue of the corruption and mismanagment of our Representative Government' . Stll havin't grasped that "to big to fail" concept that our corrupt system allowed to happen have ya...... less
stndyogrnd 37 minutes ago
There is a real basic reality going on here.... Governments will always exist, they will either serve the narrow interest of the elite at a cost to the middle class or they well serve the interest of the middle class, that will ultimately serve the short sighed wealthy who lack the mental bandwidth to grasp that fact
LOL the lack of reward of virtue over self interest is a cultural defeciency, that exist in Corporations and Government..... that fact of our moral decadence, alone is why our systems are failing no matter where we look
"Couple that with a corrupt idealogical segment of the Representative Goverment" that wants any social program to fail, and makes sure it does, and that it serves some wealthy donars while it is in play..."
-Perhaps if that corrupt segment of society were put away someplace (re-education camps, perhaps?), then social programs would succeed as flawlessly as our betters originally intended. Hmmm...now if we can only find a place to lock up 150 million people... It'd probably be easier to simply gas them. What do you think?
As to:
"There is a real basic reality going on here...."
I'd say there's a real basic inability to grasp reality going on here. You're right that Governments will always exist, which is why Thoreau posited that "The Government is best which governs least."
You beg for a leash while proposing equality, but why have us all equally enslaved when we could be equally free?
LOL the lack of reward of virtue over self interest is a cultural defeciency, that exist in Corporations and Government..... that fact of our moral decadence, alone is why our systems are failing no matter where we look
pattersh 2 minutes ago
-Perhaps if that corrupt segment of society were put away someplace (re-education camps, perhaps?), then social programs would succeed as flawlessly as our betters originally intended. Hmmm...now if we can only find a place to lock up 150 million people... It'd probably be easier to simply gas them. What do you think?
As to:
"There is a real basic reality going on here...."
I'd say there's a real basic inability to grasp reality going on here. You're right that Governments will always exist, which is why Thoreau posited that "The Government is best which governs least."
You beg for a leash while proposing equality, but why have us all equally enslaved when we could be equally free?
StormCloudBrewing 15 hours ago
+4 Votes
ROJODEE 13 hours ago
+3 Votes
21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” 22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.
pattersh 11 hours ago
+2 Votes
Amen.
Twinsdad 1 hour ago
Once again I have preserved this thread. Even if it gets fragged there is a "working copy" online
http://atabloidapproachtothemsm.blogspot.com/
http://atabloidapproachtothemsm.blogspot.com/
TheScott 1 hour ago
What is really interesting is that it hasn't. I almost threw in the towel a couple of days ago. I discussions are tedious at best sometimes but the constant deletion of comments and complete threads.... who needs it......
Twinsdad 0 second ago
Within the copy I have on the blog there have been comment deletions.
Freedom of speech is not one of the standards at MW
And once you begin judging which or whether a comment is "offensive" not only have you gone down the slippery slope, you own the slippery slope
Freedom of speech is not one of the standards at MW
And once you begin judging which or whether a comment is "offensive" not only have you gone down the slippery slope, you own the slippery slope
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