In economics, austerity is a loose term referring to policy of deficit-cutting by lowering spending often via a reduction in the amount of benefits and public services provided.
Austerity policies are often used by governments to try to reduce their deficit spending and are sometimes coupled with increases in taxes to demonstrate long-term fiscal solvency to creditors.
"Austerity" was named the word of the year by Merriam-Webster in 2010
Critics argue that, in periods of high unemployment, austerity policies are counter-productive, because deficit cutting reduces GDP (which typically means less tax revenue to pay off the debt); and that short-term stimulus is necessary to deal with deficits in the long-term
Austerity policies are often used by governments to try to reduce their deficit spending and are sometimes coupled with increases in taxes to demonstrate long-term fiscal solvency to creditors.
"Austerity" was named the word of the year by Merriam-Webster in 2010
Critics argue that, in periods of high unemployment, austerity policies are counter-productive, because deficit cutting reduces GDP (which typically means less tax revenue to pay off the debt); and that short-term stimulus is necessary to deal with deficits in the long-term
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There are 27 messages in this topic
Twinsdad 4 hours ago
+6 Votes
So, there it is in a nutshell, this board is just a microcosm of the planet wide struggles with massive debt brought about by social programs voted in beginning in the 1930's and for Europe sooner. Now the battle cry from the left in Europe to end austerity and to continue debt generation with the focus being on a "tax the rich" solution. The voters in Europe have ushered in two new governments that reject austerity, and here in the U.S. we have a government, the Obama administration that from day one rejected austerity.
The results will not be good, as Obama socializes America, the powerhouse of capitalism on the planet, the effects are already emerging. Levels of dependence on social programs are elevated and the demand for continued deficient spending, to "spend our way" out of the problem persist less
The results will not be good, as Obama socializes America, the powerhouse of capitalism on the planet, the effects are already emerging. Levels of dependence on social programs are elevated and the demand for continued deficient spending, to "spend our way" out of the problem persist less
Twinsdad 1 day ago
+7 Votes
So, there it is in a nutshell, this board is just a microcosm of the planet wide struggles with massive debt brought about by social programs voted in beginning in the 1930's and for Europe sooner. Now the battle cry from the left in Europe to end austerity and to continue debt generation with the focus being on a "tax the rich" solution. The voters in Europe have ushered in two new governments that reject austerity, and here in the U.S. we have a government, the Obama administration that from day one rejected austerity.
The results will not be good, as Obama socializes America, the powerhouse of capitalism on the planet, the effects are already emerging. Levels of dependence on social programs are elevated and the demand for continued deficient spending, to "spend our way" out of the problem persist less
The results will not be good, as Obama socializes America, the powerhouse of capitalism on the planet, the effects are already emerging. Levels of dependence on social programs are elevated and the demand for continued deficient spending, to "spend our way" out of the problem persist less
TheScott 10 hours ago
+2 Votes
The problem with the 'battle cry' from the left to end austerity is that less that 6% of all enacted austerity measures have been implemented Europe wide and most of those are in Greece. All most all the rest of the measures won't even come into effect until 2015/16..... Austerity has effected very little in Europe... debt however has infected into every part of the Economies their and here...
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soccermon 15 hours ago
I just love when the rich say they will just move else where, as they are threatening to do in Europe too, I say good riddance!
They all can live in 3rd world countries where they will have to hire their own army, I'm tired of our government catering to them.
They all can live in 3rd world countries where they will have to hire their own army, I'm tired of our government catering to them.
TheScott 4 minutes ago
Folks weren't saying that when they brought all of their industrial wealth from Europe to the US..... then we had plenty of reasons to start unions and social programs and many Departments of This & That.......
Personally I'm tired of catering to an over reaching power hungry government...... it people really understood the problem with the status of our economy, they would start focusing the blame exactly where it belongs..... The Fed and the DA's in Washingon who enable them....
Personally I'm tired of catering to an over reaching power hungry government...... it people really understood the problem with the status of our economy, they would start focusing the blame exactly where it belongs..... The Fed and the DA's in Washingon who enable them....
louman 1 day ago
+8 Votes
What austerity??
Spending has increased year after year for the last 4 years.
Like France, there is no austerity. Increase taxes now, maybe cut later. The Democrats mantra.
Spending has increased year after year for the last 4 years.
Like France, there is no austerity. Increase taxes now, maybe cut later. The Democrats mantra.
Joplin 1 day ago
+8 Votes
It's really annoying when public officials use oblivious words to describe a situation. And we do have a situation. So let's just say it the way it is: We must stop spending money we do not have.
eBud 1 day ago
+4 Votes
"We must stop spending money we do not have."
...but the "Dream Weavers" here (and in Washington) would diagree with you! First you must close your eyes, deny your common sense and "believe" real hard! Then just tap your Ruby Slippers together and start printing more money! There...now what's the problem? ;)
...but the "Dream Weavers" here (and in Washington) would diagree with you! First you must close your eyes, deny your common sense and "believe" real hard! Then just tap your Ruby Slippers together and start printing more money! There...now what's the problem? ;)
stndyogrnd 22 hours ago
+2 Votes
revamp the human condition????? Why do right wingers always want to pretend their is a simple solution for every problem.
No one can revamp the human condition, they can only accept it, and deal with it from where it is. The first thing one needs to accept is that they are part of something bigger then themselves. We are each of us just passing through here. We have a responsibility to leave this place at least as good as we received it, preferable better.
The human condition is that people are born into their circumstances, in large part, most cannot overcome those circumstances if they are horrible, without help. A few can and do, but not all that many.
Of course that help has to come in such a way that the person receiving it has to participate and try. Giving somebody something with out them making an effort is destructive to our character. Even the handicapped like to feel they are contributing in some way.less
No one can revamp the human condition, they can only accept it, and deal with it from where it is. The first thing one needs to accept is that they are part of something bigger then themselves. We are each of us just passing through here. We have a responsibility to leave this place at least as good as we received it, preferable better.
The human condition is that people are born into their circumstances, in large part, most cannot overcome those circumstances if they are horrible, without help. A few can and do, but not all that many.
Of course that help has to come in such a way that the person receiving it has to participate and try. Giving somebody something with out them making an effort is destructive to our character. Even the handicapped like to feel they are contributing in some way.less
stndyogrnd 22 hours ago
+2 Votes
The human condition is such that there have always been those relative few that are smarter and more capable then a great many others. There is an old saying "To those who much as been given, much is expected" That is a core truth of the human condition.
The human condition is that a functional emotionally stable human being, feels their connection with all humanity, and a functional healthy stable society promotes that connection, The human condition is that just because a law gets passed that says we are all equal, that doesn't wash away the effect of centuries of actions based on the deeply held belief that we are not equal.
The human condition is that we have all benefited from the sacrifices of unknown human beings that have been here before us and that our common storehouse of knowledge we all benefit from, exist only because of those sacrifices. Our individual efforts pale in comparison to that. Individual effort should be rewarded, but not at the expense of humanity. less
The human condition is that a functional emotionally stable human being, feels their connection with all humanity, and a functional healthy stable society promotes that connection, The human condition is that just because a law gets passed that says we are all equal, that doesn't wash away the effect of centuries of actions based on the deeply held belief that we are not equal.
The human condition is that we have all benefited from the sacrifices of unknown human beings that have been here before us and that our common storehouse of knowledge we all benefit from, exist only because of those sacrifices. Our individual efforts pale in comparison to that. Individual effort should be rewarded, but not at the expense of humanity. less
stndyogrnd 21 hours ago
+1 Vote
There must be a balance, to that system of reward that reflects that reality. So most of our problems that we face are due to the fact our systems and actions do not reflect the reality of the human condition, and instead reflect the fantasy of our dysfunctional narcissistic delusions. We don't need to revamp the human condition we need to revamp ourselves and accept it and within the reality of what it is.
stndyogrnd 1 day ago
+1 Vote
LOL whats really annoying is when dim minds try to apply childish simplistic remedies to problems they have no grasp of. Money is a concept that human beings have allowed to enslave them. The have hypnotized them selves into believing that human beings cannot do anything to help themselves with out first being paid to act or with out the promise of profit of money. Payment and Profit can take many forms, human beings. Economies function on the flow of money from one hand to another. When that wealth becomes too concentrated in too few of hands, that flow of money dries up, The only way to restart it, is to prime the pump with a stimulus, but that is only half of what is required, with out decent paying stable jobs, economies will not thrive. As long as the wealthy elite who have no allegiance to any country, but only to their profits, can buy access to our representative government to make the rules to benefit their agenda, those jobs will not exist less
RicFlair 1 day ago
+8 Votes
Kenny baby, cut those welfare leeches off the government dole so they can end their slavery and start helping themselves just like you said pal!
stndyogrnd 1 day ago
+2 Votes
louman 1 day ago
+7 Votes
Ric,
How can you argue with Kenny? He's so much smarter than everyone else. Surprised O doesn't have him on staff and the lead economic adviser.
How can you argue with Kenny? He's so much smarter than everyone else. Surprised O doesn't have him on staff and the lead economic adviser.
stndyogrnd 1 day ago
+1 Vote
LOL no I am not so much smater then everyone, its that right wing tools make they selves so much dumber by marrying themselves to an ignorant ideology that distorts their perceptions......
louman 1 day ago
+6 Votes
ideology that distorts their perceptions
Evaluate your ideology, it's not distorting your perception?
Have you evaluated the conservative approach or do you dismiss it as it's not what you believe to be true.
Evaluate your ideology, it's not distorting your perception?
Have you evaluated the conservative approach or do you dismiss it as it's not what you believe to be true.
stndyogrnd 1 day ago
+1 Vote
There is no such thing in reality as a "conservative or liberal" approach... there is only the reality of the human condition and the best pragmatic approach to deal with its challenges..... it is the right wing mind that politicizes every thing into "conservative and liberal labels and ideologies. In reality that is alwasy complex a combination of both so called "liberal and conservative" aproaches are needed to fix the complex problems of the human condition.
eBud 1 day ago
+4 Votes
Kenny, short version of how you'd revamp the "human condition" is to get it from those who have it...the end justifies the means...Willie Sutton and you would've totally agreed on that business plan.
stndyogrnd 21 hours ago
LOL you can keep projecting your ignorant "Willy Sutton" fantasy all you like Espud, but that is your delusion, and has nothing to do with me.
eBud 1 day ago
+6 Votes
But Kenny, your solution to the flow of money is no better or complex than Willie Sutton's. You'd just go hunt down those that have the money and take it from them, because they have it.
Human nature dictates that if 10 people are put into an isolated environment, given $10k on which to live, that inside of 6 months, 2 of them will have nearly all the money and the other 8 will be working for them. People are gonna mismanage their lives in good times and bad. Confiscating money from the successful will not solve the problem!
Go back to your Ouija Board, you're not done yet.
Human nature dictates that if 10 people are put into an isolated environment, given $10k on which to live, that inside of 6 months, 2 of them will have nearly all the money and the other 8 will be working for them. People are gonna mismanage their lives in good times and bad. Confiscating money from the successful will not solve the problem!
Go back to your Ouija Board, you're not done yet.
stndyogrnd 1 day ago
+1 Vote
Human nature dictates that if 10 people live togeather in an isolated environment and one of them figures out a way to game the system so that he gets everything, and they get nothing, the other 9 are not going to quitely starve in the corner...... that how violent revolutions start.... one has to be cognitiveley challenged to not figure that out.
Twinsdad 1 day ago
+5 Votes
So, RD
"that how violent revolutions start"
Karl Marx at work?
You imply things that are not true. Governments and "human nature" do not mix
"that how violent revolutions start"
Karl Marx at work?
You imply things that are not true. Governments and "human nature" do not mix
stndyogrnd 1 day ago
+1 Vote
really was Karl Marx around for the french revolution also.... this is the typical way a right winger trying to distort any discussion, by throwing the "Commie" stink bomb into any discussion because they know they can distract and obfuscate and create emotional turmoil by doing so...... what is being talked about is human nature. Starving, hopeless people turn into desperate mobs when they are pushed into a corner... that is human nature, and no good usually comes of it.
Then you have the typical shallow dim witted right wing standard interpretation of any discussion outside the bounds of their narrow right wing ideology. ...."But Kenny, your solution to the flow of money is no better or complex than Willie Sutton's. You'd just go hunt down those that have the money and take it from them, because they have it." less
Then you have the typical shallow dim witted right wing standard interpretation of any discussion outside the bounds of their narrow right wing ideology. ...."But Kenny, your solution to the flow of money is no better or complex than Willie Sutton's. You'd just go hunt down those that have the money and take it from them, because they have it." less
RicFlair 1 day ago
+4 Votes
Kenny baby, the big men, the 1 outta 10 that control the resources gotta have the mental bandwidth to buy off the other 9 if they wanna remain on the top. That's what's happening today with the high-rollers buying off the masses cheap by bankrolling the current resident of the oval office, and giving the poor their welfare table scraps to keep em from.demanding even more pal!
Twinsdad 1 day ago
+7 Votes
"Economies function on the flow of money from one hand to another"
Obamanomics is the flow of debt from unfunded handout to the next
Obamanomics is the flow of debt from unfunded handout to the next
Cougardan 1 day ago
+5 Votes
Hey....gotta call it like it is......"Obamanomics is the flow of debt from unfunded handout to the next"
redeyedbass 1 day ago
+5 Votes
"Money is a concept that human beings have allowed to enslave them"
Money cannot be "enslaving" you more than a pencil, a tie, a car or a house can "enslave" you. Money is only half of a transaction and is a component, just like the other.
Money cannot be "enslaving" you more than a pencil, a tie, a car or a house can "enslave" you. Money is only half of a transaction and is a component, just like the other.
stndyogrnd 1 day ago
LOL actually I didn't say "money is enslaving" I said its a concept that humans have allowed to enslave them...... see nothing external can enslave someone, that comes from the subjective position one takes. When people create the rule inside their own mind that no action or labor can take place with out "money" being involved, they have enslaved them selves..... This self created enslavement can be seen in the common phrase "time is money"..... this phrase makes "time" equivalent to money... when Time is far more precious then any amount of money... ask any rich person who is dying ... what they would rather have more of.... and you will get a straight answer.
Time and attention towards some goal is the most valuable thing a human being has to give, .... what is insane is that our culture is obsessed with the agenda to accumulate material possession with that time.less
Time and attention towards some goal is the most valuable thing a human being has to give, .... what is insane is that our culture is obsessed with the agenda to accumulate material possession with that time.less
stndyogrnd 1 day ago
+1 Vote
That insane obsession comes from out unconscious animal instinctual drives for survival. It is fear based and related to the fear of facing our own mortality. This obsession is causing us to live lives of conspicuous consumption, that is altering our environment in ways that will make it very hard on future generations. We are using up limited natural resources in wasteful ways. Due to this insanity Human kind is going to put itself into situation where it must face these dysfunctional behaviors. Its not a question of if, its a question of when.
redeyedbass 21 hours ago
+3 Votes
You are just applying a tautology then. Both of these sentences make no sense whatsoever:
A chair is enslaving me.
I let a chair enslave me.
A chair is enslaving me.
I let a chair enslave me.
Cougardan 16 hours ago
+3 Votes
Excellent point made.....if he agreed with it, the need for pure and complete government control which he seeks would become an obsolete objective.....he prefers that government be the answer.....such is the reason why you are intellectually superior to him.
eBud 1 day ago
+5 Votes
"...and one of them figures out a way to game the system so that he gets everything, and they get nothing, the other 9 are not going to quitely starve in the corner......"
A swing an' a miss, Kenny. Didn't say anything about gaming the system. I said that 8 of them wouldn't be as successful as the other 2 and would be WORKING for them, not quietly starving in the corner. All people do not have the same skill set, performance, self discipline or make good choices...but they should all get the same compensation? I've read about that system before and it didn't end too well. Yep, one has to be cognitively challenged to not figure that out.
A swing an' a miss, Kenny. Didn't say anything about gaming the system. I said that 8 of them wouldn't be as successful as the other 2 and would be WORKING for them, not quietly starving in the corner. All people do not have the same skill set, performance, self discipline or make good choices...but they should all get the same compensation? I've read about that system before and it didn't end too well. Yep, one has to be cognitively challenged to not figure that out.
Cougardan 1 day ago
+5 Votes
He don't get or support that concept.....there is more money ( for DC ) in Obamanomics.
stndyogrnd 1 day ago
+1 Vote
Yes you conveniently left out that reality..... the fact is that the real world where a group of people are in an isolated environment, ... that are called primitive tribes, there are always leaders and followers, but the Tribe is very interdependent, and they all take care of each other...So what is a swing and a miss is your lame thought experiment.
Such tribes have a rich cultural heritage, and standard rights of passage. Something that does not exist in our modern social culture, or "Tribe"
Such tribes have a rich cultural heritage, and standard rights of passage. Something that does not exist in our modern social culture, or "Tribe"
Twinsdad 1 day ago
+5 Votes
For the "tribe" of 20 your scenario works, for the "tribe of 360 million your scenario is a square peg in a round hole. Supply side almost always works in tiny populations.
Supply side always fails in huge populations.
China... supply side?
India... supply side?
U.S. ... supply side?
Russia...?
Greece?
Italy?
Spain?
Supply side always fails in huge populations.
China... supply side?
India... supply side?
U.S. ... supply side?
Russia...?
Greece?
Italy?
Spain?
eBud 1 day ago
+5 Votes
"...So what is a swing and a miss is your lame thought experiment. "
-----------------------
In my example you assumed that 9 "tribesmen" would be the "victims" of one Leader (probably a capitalist) who gamed the system. No. No one games anything. It's sociology, not weird Kenny World hallucinations.
My example - my rules - not yours. You can't change it around to suit your paranoid fantasy...then it wouldn't be my example anymore, it would be yours.
Like water, people will find their own level, wherever that may be. Eight people will find a lower level than 2, often because of choices they've made that have nothing to do with the ambitions of the 2 you want to blame. less
-----------------------
In my example you assumed that 9 "tribesmen" would be the "victims" of one Leader (probably a capitalist) who gamed the system. No. No one games anything. It's sociology, not weird Kenny World hallucinations.
My example - my rules - not yours. You can't change it around to suit your paranoid fantasy...then it wouldn't be my example anymore, it would be yours.
Like water, people will find their own level, wherever that may be. Eight people will find a lower level than 2, often because of choices they've made that have nothing to do with the ambitions of the 2 you want to blame. less
stndyogrnd 1 day ago
Supply side always fails in huge populations.
China... supply side?
India... supply side?
U.S. ... supply side?
LOL yes supply side economic is a Republican mythology ... what Bush Sr correctly called voodoo economics when he was running against Reagen
China... supply side?
India... supply side?
U.S. ... supply side?
LOL yes supply side economic is a Republican mythology ... what Bush Sr correctly called voodoo economics when he was running against Reagen
Dr.Doom 1 day ago
+2 Votes
I am amazed that you would think a right winger like George Bush Sr. would get something right. Maybe there is hope that you will grow and evolve into acceptance of right wing thought.
stndyogrnd 1 day ago
George Bush Sr was not near the id iot Reagan and Jr were.... but he had no clue about how a normal American lives..... he lost his soul from years of being heavily involved in the dark side of CIA spook world, and then sold his integrity when he worked the IRAN deal of trading weapons to terrorist for his buddy Ron, to make sure the hostages were not released before the election.
Then there is the fact I unlike you don't care what "wing" and truth comes from,.... I only care about depth and accuracy.
Then there is the fact I unlike you don't care what "wing" and truth comes from,.... I only care about depth and accuracy.
kingston 1 day ago
+1 Vote
From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs. This is the catechism of the Left and none exemplify it better than Rolling Dude. I for one have little quarrel with the concept but I have great difficulty with the execution of the philosophy.
It seems to me that Left wing Governments forget the second part of the equation and give aid beyond the ability of the people to pay. Governments have no money; they have taxes which they can legitimately distribute to those whom they consider “in need”. It is not part of Marxist philosophy to give that which they do not have. This is a concept born in Southern Europe in the middle ages when the bond market was conceived and born. Bonds today are convenient roll over instruments which allow governments to “Fund” debit and deficit economies to the detriment of the wealth of a nation and its people.
Cheers from Aussie less
stndyogrnd 1 day ago
From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.
LOL actually that is the theme of capitalism, where ones needs equal what every they desire, no matter how absurd destructive it is to the whole system.... and then that persons ability to make that happen.
It always amusing when clueless people claim to speak for me, but projecting their own shallow definition of what they think a "liberal" is, and claiming that's my perspective.
my views pragmatically defined by the human condition. People need to be encouraged to "try and contribute" as best they are able, but they should never be allowed to starve and suffer because they lack the skills to compete with those better equipped either mentally or physically. Survival of the fittest is for the animal kingdom, not civilized human beings. less
LOL actually that is the theme of capitalism, where ones needs equal what every they desire, no matter how absurd destructive it is to the whole system.... and then that persons ability to make that happen.
It always amusing when clueless people claim to speak for me, but projecting their own shallow definition of what they think a "liberal" is, and claiming that's my perspective.
my views pragmatically defined by the human condition. People need to be encouraged to "try and contribute" as best they are able, but they should never be allowed to starve and suffer because they lack the skills to compete with those better equipped either mentally or physically. Survival of the fittest is for the animal kingdom, not civilized human beings. less
stndyogrnd 1 day ago
+2 Votes
My personal creedo follow more this line of thinking
The science fiction author Robert Heinlein once said "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
But I also know that not everyone is suited to live like that. So people can only figure out how to do one thing, and have little capacity for being multi-faceted. They should not be penalized for their limitations, and not be allowed to participate in the fruits of civilization, that only exists because billions who came before us sacrificed much to get humanity to where it is. Most of us enjoy these comforts because some very talented people invented this stuff. less
The science fiction author Robert Heinlein once said "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
But I also know that not everyone is suited to live like that. So people can only figure out how to do one thing, and have little capacity for being multi-faceted. They should not be penalized for their limitations, and not be allowed to participate in the fruits of civilization, that only exists because billions who came before us sacrificed much to get humanity to where it is. Most of us enjoy these comforts because some very talented people invented this stuff. less
eBud 15 hours ago
+4 Votes
Who can fault you on this? ...but whether you realize it or not, most of your posts more than imply that the right is responsible for causing or at least perpetuating the limitations of "single faceted" people. As a card carrying right winger please understand (and I think you do) that the right wants everybody to succeed and see absolutely no benefit to impeding anyone...in good times or bad. Yes, we differ in means and method, but not in this.
stndyogrnd 1 hour ago
Fault???? why does it have to be someones "fault".....This is life. Not every one "succeeds" by getting "wealthy. Some people don't want anything more then a fair wage and stable employment. The right wing " we want everyone to succeed" is a veiled reference to "survival of the fittest" ideology.
CrazyMarine 1 day ago
Capitalism is a complex eco-system, much like those found in mother nature, a Lion is king, but needs a steady supply of Zebras and other game to eat, the zebras in turn need healthy grasslands to feed on and failure of any part of this chain dooms the entire system, supply side economics takes care of the lion only, leaving the Zebras [the middle class] to die out thus failure of the system as a whole takes place. The rich are already enjoying record profits and the lowest tax rates in 80 years but no jobs are being created and unemployment ans under employment are rampant, so what is the sense in continuing this strategy???
louman 1 day ago
+5 Votes
CrazyMarine 1 day ago
A stronger social safety net for the middle class, affordable health care, college education, and retirement, paid for out of the record corporate profits that are being made, the opposite of austerity Infrastructure repairs and other needed work provided by the government and paid for by these same profits. I livid next store to a couple who had emigrated from Russia in the early 90,s and I asked him what he liked and did not like about America, he loved the availability of goods he could buy here, but he could not buy them because he got too many BILLS in the mail, he was used to the soviet safety net that provided for health care and educating etc, etc. We are asking American workers to compete with workers who do not get BILLS in the mail, and that,s not a level playing field. less
louman 1 day ago
+4 Votes
We cannot pay for the current spending today. Want to rip off corporations and make them pay for a US of Greece? Think they won't fold up the tent and move to a country that wants them?
Taking more from the corporations will result in
1. Less investment as dividends returned to the share holder are eliminated.
2. More unemployment as they lay off people to cover the largess of the government.
3. Migration of international corporations to friendlier nations.
Nirvana.
Taking more from the corporations will result in
1. Less investment as dividends returned to the share holder are eliminated.
2. More unemployment as they lay off people to cover the largess of the government.
3. Migration of international corporations to friendlier nations.
Nirvana.
CrazyMarine 1 day ago
They actually could not find a nation that taxes them less, otherwise they would already be gone, the Chinese, for instance already charge a 10% value added tax on all stages of production and allow no special deduction , add to that the threat of government takeover and corporation are not going anywhere, they have already invested to much money to control our media and political systems, they are pleased that you have this unrealistic fear of leaving so their tax savings will remain, but it,s placed in your mind by the media they own..
kingston 1 day ago
Lou and CM (Both are my friends) but you are each part of the problem in that you polarise the argument so that nothing gets done! CM is happy with debit and deficit and Lou is happy that the corporations are making large profits.
So what then to do? You must uncouple both groups from the argument and at the same time you will alienate the people! A good start perhaps which will require leadership not currently in evidence. Increase taxes and reduce entitlements until the nation can cease debit and deficit fiscal policy. I have many friends in your history books, Jefferson abhorred financial matters but he could have led the nation now. Andrew Jackson paid of the National Debit; good candidate for then but where are their successors now?
Cheers from Aussie less
So what then to do? You must uncouple both groups from the argument and at the same time you will alienate the people! A good start perhaps which will require leadership not currently in evidence. Increase taxes and reduce entitlements until the nation can cease debit and deficit fiscal policy. I have many friends in your history books, Jefferson abhorred financial matters but he could have led the nation now. Andrew Jackson paid of the National Debit; good candidate for then but where are their successors now?
Cheers from Aussie less
CrazyMarine 1 day ago
Reducing entitlements will have a bad effect on the economy, it,s what the austerity measures did in europe and will do here as well, income inequality between the rich and everyone else has reached epic proportions here, so let,s go back to RD,s Willie Sutton quote, if you need money go to where the money is and get it. Don,t continue to strap and beat up the middle class, because that,s the problem, not the solution.
louman 19 hours ago
+2 Votes
Raising taxes on corporations will have the same negative effect. Take 1 billion from a corporation will result in a reaction:
1. Layoff people to make up the loss.
2. Raise prices to compensate for the loss.
3. Corporation tells the US to take a hike and moves overseas, people get laid off.
In either case it hits the workers, the middle class.
Income inequality is caused by government intervention specifically the Federal Reserve in their continual manipulation of the value of our currency.
1. Layoff people to make up the loss.
2. Raise prices to compensate for the loss.
3. Corporation tells the US to take a hike and moves overseas, people get laid off.
In either case it hits the workers, the middle class.
Income inequality is caused by government intervention specifically the Federal Reserve in their continual manipulation of the value of our currency.
TheScott 4 hours ago
+2 Votes
"Reducing entitlements will have a bad effect on the economy, it,s what the austerity measures did in Europe and will do here as well,"
This is an illusion CM. As I said very early on in this thread, almost no actual austerity has taken place. Budgets have continued to expand. The cause for the pain lies elsewhere because the people of Europe may be under employed but government spending has not, to any real measure, been cut.
This is an illusion CM. As I said very early on in this thread, almost no actual austerity has taken place. Budgets have continued to expand. The cause for the pain lies elsewhere because the people of Europe may be under employed but government spending has not, to any real measure, been cut.
CrazyMarine 19 hours ago
Louman; Your theory has been common knowledge for years and whay has been the end result, unemployment, underemployment, and a depressed economy, kissing up to the corporations has made the future of the middle class to be very bleak indeed while profits soared, everything in moderation, giving the corporate side everything they want is proving to be bad for the overall economy, all the negatives you list are happening anyway, and sense of balance and fairness needs to be returned to the system.
TheScott 3 hours ago
+2 Votes
When we use the word 'corporations', I wonder if we are skewing the subject. The conversation we have about 'corporations' elicits the image of the likes of GE, Cisco, Ford, IBM. They are having record profits but neither profits or their jobs are in the US. Much of their equity price reflects monies that never enter the US. Of the remainder of the corporations, that is national and particularly non exporting corporations, I do wonder if treat them the way we feel about multinationals, how many would no longer be able to compete or would have to lay off even more people to cover. I don't know that taxes are the problem with unemployment, underemployment and a depressed economy.... at least I don't think that the people in China think that..... While I agree that we need a new covenant with the corporate entity, I think we are closing the barn door just a touch to late... less
CrazyMarine 3 hours ago
TheScott; Austerity in Europe is not an illusion, here is a Washington post article that goes into great detail to explain it.
http.//www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/yes-theres-been-austerity-in-europe/2012/05/08/gIQAQINsAU-blog.
You may wish to feed your delusion by denial of facts,but others chose not to.
http.//www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/yes-theres-been-austerity-in-europe/2012/05/08/gIQAQINsAU-blog.
You may wish to feed your delusion by denial of facts,but others chose not to.
TheScott 3 hours ago
+2 Votes
I tried the link CM but it no longer works.....
But these do:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100153583/why-the-new-york-timess-paul-krugman-is-clueless-about-the-european-economic-crisis/
http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2012/05/how-savage-has-european-austerity-been.html
I live in Britain and the only part of austarity that has really been talked about is... the proposal to downsize government and rethink pensions..... now that has got all the public sector unions in a tizzy but to date, very few public sector workers are on the street..... nor are the poor or the single moms.....Britain's balance sheet is still expanding. sorry...
But these do:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100153583/why-the-new-york-timess-paul-krugman-is-clueless-about-the-european-economic-crisis/
http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2012/05/how-savage-has-european-austerity-been.html
I live in Britain and the only part of austarity that has really been talked about is... the proposal to downsize government and rethink pensions..... now that has got all the public sector unions in a tizzy but to date, very few public sector workers are on the street..... nor are the poor or the single moms.....Britain's balance sheet is still expanding. sorry...
TheScott 3 hours ago
CrazyMarine 3 hours ago
If you just google austerity in europe the article comes right up, it is a fact, and the results have been unsatisfactory, so much so, the talk at the G-8 meeting is about changing coarse and increasing government spending, no surprise, Hoover used that method here in 1930-32 and the depression became more severe.
TheScott 1 hour ago
+3 Votes
On average, Europe wide deficit spending has dropped about 2%. Yet debt to gdp has risen 85.3 to 87.2%. As said in another article:
"I suspect the entire debate hinges on a difference in assumptions about the relevant spending baseline. If your theory prescribes significantly ramping up spending during recession, low or flat spending growth can look perversely “austere,” even if absolute spending as a % of GDP is very high."
It was the IMF itself that has gone to countries that could no longer pay their bills and demand the 'austerity' for many of these countries in the first place.
As far as the G8 goes, what would anyone expect. G8 is a club of Keynesians anyway. They remind me of GOP state conventions-The old guard Republicans don't like Ron Paul in the house and do everything they can not to listed to him.
Remember that Obama's prescription is 'a balanced approach' of some spending cuts with large tax increases,which your article chooses to omit from the problem. less
Twinsdad 0 second ago
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/modern-monetary-theory-is-an-unconventional-take-on-economic-strategy/2012/02/15/gIQAR8uPMR_story.html?wprss=rss_homepage
What Crazy is talking about without knowing it is MMT. NoHelp provided me info on the theory
Modern Monetary Theory
http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2012/05/playing-monopolis-monopoly-an-inquiry-into-why-we-are-making-ourselves-so-miserable.html
Take a time out and read both these links, it will explain alot about what is taking place at levels well above all of us
What Crazy is talking about without knowing it is MMT. NoHelp provided me info on the theory
Modern Monetary Theory
http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2012/05/playing-monopolis-monopoly-an-inquiry-into-why-we-are-making-ourselves-so-miserable.html
Take a time out and read both these links, it will explain alot about what is taking place at levels well above all of us
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