Thomas Byrne Edsall:
Paradoxically, many, if not most, voters hold internally contradictory views on the role of government—strongly supportive of major deficit reduction while opposed to paring back the most costly and fast-growing programs from which they themselves benefit. When pressed on specifics, the public has no stomach for the kind of fiscal consolidation that would rein in the growth of long-term debt.
Paradoxically, many, if not most, voters hold internally contradictory views on the role of government—strongly supportive of major deficit reduction while opposed to paring back the most costly and fast-growing programs from which they themselves benefit. When pressed on specifics, the public has no stomach for the kind of fiscal consolidation that would rein in the growth of long-term debt.
louman 20 hours ago
+5 Votes
Rojayalso 19 hours ago
+5 Votes
"Will the US reduce it's spending?".........Does an alcoholic want another drink ?
RicFlair 20 hours ago
+8 Votes
Lou baby, it will get to the point where the choice is gone, the printing presses are broken, or nobody gives any credibility to the fiat currency that drives the run away spending pal!
louman 17 minutes ago
Choice has faded to a distant memory. 1 more election like the last and it will be gone with no hope of return.
If the current spending trend isn't stopped soon the only option is full speed ahead and print the money to pay the debt. Hyper inflation.
People think this economy is difficult will see what difficult really is. Unfortunately it will begin again as the fools we elect will begin accumulating debt again. That is why a balanced budget amendment is a must in our next economy.
Joplin 20 hours ago
+7 Votes
People do not want SS and medicare cut. Most of us have paid into both programs all our lives therefore it is our money and we want it back.
There are plenty of places to stop the spending and the first place is DC. Wasn't there a topic up late last week about the federal jobs training program and that there's ~45 government agencies participating in this? Yet, there's no oversight, no reporting to determine if the program(s) even work much less an actual success rate %.
So you see the REAL problem is not people, it's government refusing to look closely at itself, cut a good many of the duplicate agencies AND get some oversight going on. People in the private sector have to report to management their results. It's about time the government was held accountable to do the same. less
Cougardan 20 hours ago
+7 Votes
Indeed....but O will threaten those Medicare checks every time.......
Nohelp1 18 hours ago
+1 Vote
"So you see the REAL problem is not people, it's government refusing to look closely at itself, cut a good many of the duplicate agencies AND get some oversight going on."
I see your REAL problem- you think government is an "it" and not real people. Obviously, you have never worked in government nor contracted with government to believe there is no accountability. There is no magic transformation that occurs in people when they cross from public to private nor when they cross back. Individuals take actions they think will yield them the largest net advantage. They do this whether in the public sector or private sector.
gottaloveit 17 hours ago
+5 Votes
The government is simply too large. It does things that it has no business being involved with, nor ever intended to do.
Cougardan 17 hours ago
+5 Votes
Even if it is an "it"...
"The government is simply too large. It does things that it has no business being involved with, nor ever intended to do."
...that was worth repeating.
JimboSC 17 hours ago
+6 Votes
Actually Nohelp, the fact that government is real people and not an IT is exactly what the problem is.
People tend to be subjective...ITs are objective. The government has limits that an IT would follow, but the people that are government will run rough shod over.
stndyogrnd 16 hours ago
Actually Nohelp, the fact that government is real people and not an IT is exactly what the problem is.
Thats not "the problem" that just a fact of life. The problem is that we have a system of legalized corruption that not only encourages, but requires every one dance to its tune to get first elected and then to stay in office and even to get anything done. This could not be any more obviouse
Joplin 16 hours ago
+4 Votes
I have never desired to work in government, so you are correct I have never worked in government. I, like everyone else, has had to deal with them. It takes a ridiculously long amount of time to get anything done and the amount of red tape is unreal. It reminds me of that commercial with the dog aimlessly and repeatedly jumping through the hoop.
TheScott 5 hours ago
+2 Votes
I can guarantee that their are a lot of career public service employees that could not make it in the private sector..... if for no other reason than they pay would no longer support their lifestyle....
To the main question of whether the government will reduce its spending.... As long as we look at money the way we do; as long as we look at government the way we do and as long as we have a federal reserve with the underlying goals that it has.... the answer is an emphatic NO! When the money has no value; when the government purpose is to provide and not guide and when the goal of the federal reserve as a private institution is the transfer of wealth from the bottom to the top and the people allow, though ignorance or apathy, that system to continue..... No! less
louman 21 minutes ago
+1 Vote
Obviously, you have never worked in government nor contracted with government to believe there is no accountability.
An example comes to mind:
How many people were fired over the Solyndra fiasco?
500 million wasted with no accountability.
Nohelp1 17 hours ago
You are most likely correct gotta in whatever context "too large" is. It is most likely too large in all contexts. Here is a bigger problem for you to worry about--- approximately 80% of household income goes to FIRE-- the non productive part of our private sector-- leaving only 20% for consumption of production.
gottaloveit 17 hours ago
+6 Votes
That, sir, is called creative destruction under the capitalistic model, but I doubt it is anywhere near 80%. What percentage of our tax dollars goes to fund a government bureaucrat who sits behind a desk and tells business what and how to produce, killing productivity? I AM NOT A ZERO REGULATION GUY!!! But I favor very smart, but very little regulation.
Nohelp1 14 hours ago
+1 Vote
What's called creative destruction? The fact that approximately 80% of our income goes to Finance, Insurance, and Real Estate(FIRE)?
Who you going to vote for then Gotta if you want a smaller government? For the majority of Americans have been wanting this for years and both parties claim they are going to give it to us but neither never delivers.
TheScott 3 minutes ago
Nohelp1..... I think you already know where I'm going with this..... How about checking out Ron Paul and his thoughts..... He really wants small government.... Really.
snarking.slug 16 hours ago
+1 Vote
Yes. We'll reduce the money we spend on two wasteful wars. However, we won't realize any budget savings. The wars have been off budget. reduce be several billion and no budget credit. Talk about spineless congresses and a worthless president.
louman 10 hours ago
+2 Votes
On budget, off budget, doesn't matter, the money is being spent even today. Why does it matter if it's off budget or on budget? We haven't had a budget in 3 years, just continuing resolutions spending more year after year.
Obama has made a real effort to put the wars on budget.
Wonder how he does that when you have no budget.
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snarking.slug 10 minutes ago
But it does matter. You're correct, the debt will stop rising by the amount we're not spending on the wars. However, not a dime comes off of the deficit because the wars are off budget.
louman 2 minutes ago
Snark,
There is no budget and hasn't been one for over 3 years. Can't take something from something that doesn't exist.
The debt at the end of the fiscal year is the total amount spent (on or off budget) over the taxes collected. Bush's last year generated 480 Billion (give or take a few million here or there) in additional debt.
Back in the olden days when we had a budget it may have mattered to the bean counters but at the end of the fiscal year the total debt generated is what was important.
stndyogrnd 16 hours ago
Money in budgets, but supplementals aren't going away
Updated: Thursday, September 16th, 2010 | By Lukas Pleva
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/161/end-the-abuse-of-supplemental-budgets-for-war/
You should read this SS, the fact is that Obama has made a real effort to put the wars on budget
kingston 14 hours ago
+3 Votes
Good debate
My take from afar? Government never earns money so therefore spends without the pain normally associated with disbursement. Your government is no different, just bigger than all others. Reduction in deficit spending can be achieved and in US can be achieved more easily than in Greece for example. Military procurement could be cut in half and featherbedding of congressional manufacturing sites rationalised. Space programme now unaffordable and could be put out to care and maintenance. Overseas military aid needs cutting back, Look to support yourselves first. America has been for 60years the policeman of the world, time to retire and live out your declining years looking after yourselves.
Cheers from Aussie
louman 13 hours ago
+3 Votes
Government never earns money so therefore spends without the pain normally associated with disbursement.
The interesting point is that the world has taken advantage of out largess.
During our natural disasters how many friends responded. Only a few. We need to take care of our friends and ourselves. Most in the world are not our friends. Everyone else should pay for our services. I don't think we need to protect Britain, Germany, Italy of Ireland any longer. The 1000 bases spread over the world is excess. Nation building needs to end. Look what it did for Egypt, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan. There is time to return this once great nation to greatness however the people need to pull together and work as a country under a leader, not a divisive government.
Policemen get paid, sometimes little but they do get paid.less
kingston 12 hours ago
+2 Votes
Lou.
To some extent this is my point above. However, to be fair and honest we must look at the reasons US became the unpaid policeman. It all stems from the Monroe doctrine and the determination that US would not allow colonisation on your side of the ocean; thus keeping conflict away from American soil... Spread this philosophy through several generations and it held good until Japans attack on Pearl Harbour. Post WW2 USSR provided the external threat and the doctrine was reinvented to prevent the spread of Communism. The rest of the free world benefited and we are (or should be, grateful). You did have some help though and Australia has been in just about every s.hit fight (some unjustified) you have had. We shall continue to be involved but you must repair your economy and your nation; the need is urgent.
Cheers from Aussie less
Rojayalso 19 hours ago
+5 Votes
"Will the US reduce it's spending?".........Does an alcoholic want another drink ?
RicFlair 20 hours ago
+8 Votes
Lou baby, it will get to the point where the choice is gone, the printing presses are broken, or nobody gives any credibility to the fiat currency that drives the run away spending pal!
louman 17 minutes ago
Choice has faded to a distant memory. 1 more election like the last and it will be gone with no hope of return.
If the current spending trend isn't stopped soon the only option is full speed ahead and print the money to pay the debt. Hyper inflation.
People think this economy is difficult will see what difficult really is. Unfortunately it will begin again as the fools we elect will begin accumulating debt again. That is why a balanced budget amendment is a must in our next economy.
If the current spending trend isn't stopped soon the only option is full speed ahead and print the money to pay the debt. Hyper inflation.
People think this economy is difficult will see what difficult really is. Unfortunately it will begin again as the fools we elect will begin accumulating debt again. That is why a balanced budget amendment is a must in our next economy.
Joplin 20 hours ago
+7 Votes
People do not want SS and medicare cut. Most of us have paid into both programs all our lives therefore it is our money and we want it back.
There are plenty of places to stop the spending and the first place is DC. Wasn't there a topic up late last week about the federal jobs training program and that there's ~45 government agencies participating in this? Yet, there's no oversight, no reporting to determine if the program(s) even work much less an actual success rate %.
So you see the REAL problem is not people, it's government refusing to look closely at itself, cut a good many of the duplicate agencies AND get some oversight going on. People in the private sector have to report to management their results. It's about time the government was held accountable to do the same. less
There are plenty of places to stop the spending and the first place is DC. Wasn't there a topic up late last week about the federal jobs training program and that there's ~45 government agencies participating in this? Yet, there's no oversight, no reporting to determine if the program(s) even work much less an actual success rate %.
So you see the REAL problem is not people, it's government refusing to look closely at itself, cut a good many of the duplicate agencies AND get some oversight going on. People in the private sector have to report to management their results. It's about time the government was held accountable to do the same. less
Cougardan 20 hours ago
+7 Votes
Indeed....but O will threaten those Medicare checks every time.......
Nohelp1 18 hours ago
+1 Vote
"So you see the REAL problem is not people, it's government refusing to look closely at itself, cut a good many of the duplicate agencies AND get some oversight going on."
I see your REAL problem- you think government is an "it" and not real people. Obviously, you have never worked in government nor contracted with government to believe there is no accountability. There is no magic transformation that occurs in people when they cross from public to private nor when they cross back. Individuals take actions they think will yield them the largest net advantage. They do this whether in the public sector or private sector.
I see your REAL problem- you think government is an "it" and not real people. Obviously, you have never worked in government nor contracted with government to believe there is no accountability. There is no magic transformation that occurs in people when they cross from public to private nor when they cross back. Individuals take actions they think will yield them the largest net advantage. They do this whether in the public sector or private sector.
gottaloveit 17 hours ago
+5 Votes
The government is simply too large. It does things that it has no business being involved with, nor ever intended to do.
Cougardan 17 hours ago
+5 Votes
Even if it is an "it"...
"The government is simply too large. It does things that it has no business being involved with, nor ever intended to do."
...that was worth repeating.
"The government is simply too large. It does things that it has no business being involved with, nor ever intended to do."
...that was worth repeating.
JimboSC 17 hours ago
+6 Votes
Actually Nohelp, the fact that government is real people and not an IT is exactly what the problem is.
People tend to be subjective...ITs are objective. The government has limits that an IT would follow, but the people that are government will run rough shod over.
People tend to be subjective...ITs are objective. The government has limits that an IT would follow, but the people that are government will run rough shod over.
stndyogrnd 16 hours ago
Actually Nohelp, the fact that government is real people and not an IT is exactly what the problem is.
Thats not "the problem" that just a fact of life. The problem is that we have a system of legalized corruption that not only encourages, but requires every one dance to its tune to get first elected and then to stay in office and even to get anything done. This could not be any more obviouse
Thats not "the problem" that just a fact of life. The problem is that we have a system of legalized corruption that not only encourages, but requires every one dance to its tune to get first elected and then to stay in office and even to get anything done. This could not be any more obviouse
Joplin 16 hours ago
+4 Votes
I have never desired to work in government, so you are correct I have never worked in government. I, like everyone else, has had to deal with them. It takes a ridiculously long amount of time to get anything done and the amount of red tape is unreal. It reminds me of that commercial with the dog aimlessly and repeatedly jumping through the hoop.
TheScott 5 hours ago
+2 Votes
I can guarantee that their are a lot of career public service employees that could not make it in the private sector..... if for no other reason than they pay would no longer support their lifestyle....
To the main question of whether the government will reduce its spending.... As long as we look at money the way we do; as long as we look at government the way we do and as long as we have a federal reserve with the underlying goals that it has.... the answer is an emphatic NO! When the money has no value; when the government purpose is to provide and not guide and when the goal of the federal reserve as a private institution is the transfer of wealth from the bottom to the top and the people allow, though ignorance or apathy, that system to continue..... No! less
To the main question of whether the government will reduce its spending.... As long as we look at money the way we do; as long as we look at government the way we do and as long as we have a federal reserve with the underlying goals that it has.... the answer is an emphatic NO! When the money has no value; when the government purpose is to provide and not guide and when the goal of the federal reserve as a private institution is the transfer of wealth from the bottom to the top and the people allow, though ignorance or apathy, that system to continue..... No! less
louman 21 minutes ago
+1 Vote
Obviously, you have never worked in government nor contracted with government to believe there is no accountability.
An example comes to mind:
How many people were fired over the Solyndra fiasco?
500 million wasted with no accountability.
An example comes to mind:
How many people were fired over the Solyndra fiasco?
500 million wasted with no accountability.
Nohelp1 17 hours ago
You are most likely correct gotta in whatever context "too large" is. It is most likely too large in all contexts. Here is a bigger problem for you to worry about--- approximately 80% of household income goes to FIRE-- the non productive part of our private sector-- leaving only 20% for consumption of production.
gottaloveit 17 hours ago
+6 Votes
That, sir, is called creative destruction under the capitalistic model, but I doubt it is anywhere near 80%. What percentage of our tax dollars goes to fund a government bureaucrat who sits behind a desk and tells business what and how to produce, killing productivity? I AM NOT A ZERO REGULATION GUY!!! But I favor very smart, but very little regulation.
Nohelp1 14 hours ago
+1 Vote
What's called creative destruction? The fact that approximately 80% of our income goes to Finance, Insurance, and Real Estate(FIRE)?
Who you going to vote for then Gotta if you want a smaller government? For the majority of Americans have been wanting this for years and both parties claim they are going to give it to us but neither never delivers.
Who you going to vote for then Gotta if you want a smaller government? For the majority of Americans have been wanting this for years and both parties claim they are going to give it to us but neither never delivers.
TheScott 3 minutes ago
Nohelp1..... I think you already know where I'm going with this..... How about checking out Ron Paul and his thoughts..... He really wants small government.... Really.
snarking.slug 16 hours ago
+1 Vote
Yes. We'll reduce the money we spend on two wasteful wars. However, we won't realize any budget savings. The wars have been off budget. reduce be several billion and no budget credit. Talk about spineless congresses and a worthless president.
louman 10 hours ago
+2 Votes
On budget, off budget, doesn't matter, the money is being spent even today. Why does it matter if it's off budget or on budget? We haven't had a budget in 3 years, just continuing resolutions spending more year after year.
Obama has made a real effort to put the wars on budget.
Wonder how he does that when you have no budget.
Obama has made a real effort to put the wars on budget.
Wonder how he does that when you have no budget.
Reply Link Track Replies Report Abuse
snarking.slug 10 minutes ago
But it does matter. You're correct, the debt will stop rising by the amount we're not spending on the wars. However, not a dime comes off of the deficit because the wars are off budget.
louman 2 minutes ago
Snark,
There is no budget and hasn't been one for over 3 years. Can't take something from something that doesn't exist.
The debt at the end of the fiscal year is the total amount spent (on or off budget) over the taxes collected. Bush's last year generated 480 Billion (give or take a few million here or there) in additional debt.
Back in the olden days when we had a budget it may have mattered to the bean counters but at the end of the fiscal year the total debt generated is what was important.
There is no budget and hasn't been one for over 3 years. Can't take something from something that doesn't exist.
The debt at the end of the fiscal year is the total amount spent (on or off budget) over the taxes collected. Bush's last year generated 480 Billion (give or take a few million here or there) in additional debt.
Back in the olden days when we had a budget it may have mattered to the bean counters but at the end of the fiscal year the total debt generated is what was important.
stndyogrnd 16 hours ago
Money in budgets, but supplementals aren't going away
Updated: Thursday, September 16th, 2010 | By Lukas Pleva
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/161/end-the-abuse-of-supplemental-budgets-for-war/
You should read this SS, the fact is that Obama has made a real effort to put the wars on budget
Updated: Thursday, September 16th, 2010 | By Lukas Pleva
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/161/end-the-abuse-of-supplemental-budgets-for-war/
You should read this SS, the fact is that Obama has made a real effort to put the wars on budget
kingston 14 hours ago
+3 Votes
Good debate
My take from afar? Government never earns money so therefore spends without the pain normally associated with disbursement. Your government is no different, just bigger than all others. Reduction in deficit spending can be achieved and in US can be achieved more easily than in Greece for example. Military procurement could be cut in half and featherbedding of congressional manufacturing sites rationalised. Space programme now unaffordable and could be put out to care and maintenance. Overseas military aid needs cutting back, Look to support yourselves first. America has been for 60years the policeman of the world, time to retire and live out your declining years looking after yourselves.
Cheers from Aussie
My take from afar? Government never earns money so therefore spends without the pain normally associated with disbursement. Your government is no different, just bigger than all others. Reduction in deficit spending can be achieved and in US can be achieved more easily than in Greece for example. Military procurement could be cut in half and featherbedding of congressional manufacturing sites rationalised. Space programme now unaffordable and could be put out to care and maintenance. Overseas military aid needs cutting back, Look to support yourselves first. America has been for 60years the policeman of the world, time to retire and live out your declining years looking after yourselves.
Cheers from Aussie
louman 13 hours ago
+3 Votes
Government never earns money so therefore spends without the pain normally associated with disbursement.
The interesting point is that the world has taken advantage of out largess.
During our natural disasters how many friends responded. Only a few. We need to take care of our friends and ourselves. Most in the world are not our friends. Everyone else should pay for our services. I don't think we need to protect Britain, Germany, Italy of Ireland any longer. The 1000 bases spread over the world is excess. Nation building needs to end. Look what it did for Egypt, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan. There is time to return this once great nation to greatness however the people need to pull together and work as a country under a leader, not a divisive government.
Policemen get paid, sometimes little but they do get paid.less
The interesting point is that the world has taken advantage of out largess.
During our natural disasters how many friends responded. Only a few. We need to take care of our friends and ourselves. Most in the world are not our friends. Everyone else should pay for our services. I don't think we need to protect Britain, Germany, Italy of Ireland any longer. The 1000 bases spread over the world is excess. Nation building needs to end. Look what it did for Egypt, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan. There is time to return this once great nation to greatness however the people need to pull together and work as a country under a leader, not a divisive government.
Policemen get paid, sometimes little but they do get paid.less
kingston 12 hours ago
+2 Votes
Lou.
To some extent this is my point above. However, to be fair and honest we must look at the reasons US became the unpaid policeman. It all stems from the Monroe doctrine and the determination that US would not allow colonisation on your side of the ocean; thus keeping conflict away from American soil... Spread this philosophy through several generations and it held good until Japans attack on Pearl Harbour. Post WW2 USSR provided the external threat and the doctrine was reinvented to prevent the spread of Communism. The rest of the free world benefited and we are (or should be, grateful). You did have some help though and Australia has been in just about every s.hit fight (some unjustified) you have had. We shall continue to be involved but you must repair your economy and your nation; the need is urgent.
Cheers from Aussie less
To some extent this is my point above. However, to be fair and honest we must look at the reasons US became the unpaid policeman. It all stems from the Monroe doctrine and the determination that US would not allow colonisation on your side of the ocean; thus keeping conflict away from American soil... Spread this philosophy through several generations and it held good until Japans attack on Pearl Harbour. Post WW2 USSR provided the external threat and the doctrine was reinvented to prevent the spread of Communism. The rest of the free world benefited and we are (or should be, grateful). You did have some help though and Australia has been in just about every s.hit fight (some unjustified) you have had. We shall continue to be involved but you must repair your economy and your nation; the need is urgent.
Cheers from Aussie less
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